Greenspan warns over US deficit

[Scrivener]

Article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4027587.stm)

It seems like people have been warning about this for the longest time, but nothing seems to be going too far wrong yet. What do you bet for the future?

Some say the Japanese can't afford to let the US fail, so they will just keep buying US dollars and investing in the US.

[Charles Ensign]

It seems like people have been warning about this for the longest time, but nothing seems to be going too far wrong yet. What do you bet for the future?

It isn't a question of if, it's a question of when. Between deficits and our import/export profile, it's readily apparent that the U.S. economy is ripe for a correction. Naturally, our reaction to this has been to put it off as long as possible, not actually to try and fix the problem.


Some say the Japanese can't afford to let the US fail, so they will just keep buying US dollars and investing in the US.

The Japanese don't have enough money to continue to prop up the U.S. dollar. They can keep fighting to keep their export market open, but the paradigm they're trying to preserve is the source of the problem itself. They can keep throwing money away to buy themselves a few more years, but they'd be better off getting ready to rebuild after the inevitible crash - even if it would be political suicide to do so.


From what I can tell, the strategy is to give connected investors enough time to get their money out of the U.S. market, then let it do it's thing. You can always survive a crash - the U.S. is still very resource-rich, and despite stereotypes to the contrary Americans are a hard working people. There will be some adjustment away from all the ridiculously cheap goods that Americans are used to gorging on, but in the end you'll still have a home and be able to feed yourself - and isn't that what's really important?

Peace,
-CxE

[Silver Bells]

China is also propping up the US dollar, Europe is very concerned about the falling US dollar as well.

Bush's current plan of spend until we can't spend anymore is just digging us into a deeper hole however, and Iraq isn't going to end any time soon. (Nor is the 'Pay for the war with Iraqi Oil' campaign going to be working soon either)

The US dollar definitely needs to keep getting lower in order for the correction to take place, but it seems like no one really wants that to happen.

[Xavz]

Yes, I see that the economy is headed for a crash. It's just the way things work; economies run in a cycle of boom and bust.

[Killenator 5000]

I think whats most telling is that the vote currently stands 5-0.

[tektonik]

Economic pointers don't seem to indicate it yet. I don't think we will have a 1984-1999 type boom like we did any time soon but I think it is too soon to predict anything.

[Scrivener]

The Economist is pessimistic:
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3421 877

[Weezer_Blue]

IMO, bush is a retard.

...Expensive War

...+

...Cutting Taxes

...=

...Really Bad Economic Policy


My favorite president was clinton. He got into office saying "I'm gonna raise your taxes!"

[Weezer_Blue]

Economic pointers don't seem to indicate it yet. I don't think we will have a 1984-1999 type boom like we did any time soon but I think it is too soon to predict anything.


that's why I like clinton

[Koiju]

IMO, bush is a retard.
My favorite president was clinton. He got into office saying "I'm gonna raise your taxes!"

Hehe, yup, I agree.

Bush is also a puppet for the neo-conservatives, and they are evil incarnate imo :P
Somthing similar might happen over here soon, one of our leading parties (I keep forgetting which one >.<) is the only one saying there gonna raise taxes, but at the same time acctually do stuff with the money... And it looks like people are more likely to vote for them at the moment...

Personly, I wouldnt be opposed to a tax rate as high as 50%, provided I knew that the money was gonna be put to good use, improving schools, NHS, public transport etc

Lets look at it this way, you pay your landlord (assuming you dont own your house) a fee per month to live there right? And with that fee they make sure you stay warm and dry right? Well taxes and the government is exactly the same, you pay them a fee (taxes) and they improve your living conditions with it (public transport, NHS(in the case of England), education etc). Now, you'd pay more for better living conditions wouldnt you? Provided, that is, you could afford it. But with taxes, everyone can always afford it, thats the whole point of taxes, its a %, so if you dont earn much, you dont pay much, yet you still get the increased benifits... Sounds like a damn good idea to me.

[Charles Ensign]

Lets look at it this way, you pay your landlord (assuming you dont own your house) a fee per month to live there right? And with that fee they make sure you stay warm and dry right? Well taxes and the government is exactly the same, you pay them a fee (taxes) and they improve your living conditions with it (public transport, NHS(in the case of England), education etc).

I don't think there would be nearly as much opposition to taxes if that was actually the way it works.

Over here it's more like they take their money, then go and hand it out to corporations and special interest groups. Then they borrow a bunch of money to go out and kill people and make even more money for said corporations and special interest groups. Then they cry poor and 'regret' that they have to cut back what remains of the social programs that might actually improve people's lives.

I refuse to believe that the state can spend my money more wisely than me, if for no other reason than it has a *long* history of failure. Taxes are just a more organized form of blackmail - either you give them your protection money, or they'll throw you in jail.

Peace,
-CxE

[Koiju]

I don't think there would be nearly as much opposition to taxes if that was actually the way it works.

Over here it's more like they take their money, then go and hand it out to corporations and special interest groups. Then they borrow a bunch of money to go out and kill people and make even more money for said corporations and special interest groups. Then they cry poor and 'regret' that they have to cut back what remains of the social programs that might actually improve people's lives.

I refuse to believe that the state can spend my money more wisely than me, if for no other reason than it has a *long* history of failure. Taxes are just a more organized form of blackmail - either you give them your protection money, or they'll throw you in jail.

Peace,
-CxE


Note I said 'provided I knew that the money was gonna be put to good use, improving schools, NHS, public transport etc'
Heh, obviously I'd have to know it was going somwhere worthwhile

And please dont just generalise by saying that taxes are blackmail, there not, taxes are acctually a very good system, its just that polaticians are greedy basterds :P

[TrapY Access]

thank hell i get paid in british pounds :)

[Charles Ensign]

And please dont just generalise by saying that taxes are blackmail, there not, taxes are acctually a very good system, its just that polaticians are greedy basterds :P

They're state sanctioned blackmail in the strictest sense of the word.

In theory, you're right, that money *should* get spent on programs that help the general population. The problem of course is that as soon as you create a massive revenue stream like the one taxes provide, you inevitibly get corruption. Why wouldn't you? It's free money.

Peace,
-CxE

[Koiju]

They're state sanctioned blackmail in the strictest sense of the word.

In theory, you're right, that money *should* get spent on programs that help the general population. The problem of course is that as soon as you create a massive revenue stream like the one taxes provide, you inevitibly get corruption. Why wouldn't you? It's free money.

Peace,
-CxE

Ah, thats cos humans suck and the world is depressing :P got nothing to do with taxes, there a good idea, its humans that shouldnt have been invented ;) lol!

[XenoMike]

It's only a matter of when for anything that can happen to us.

It's human nature to not act until it's too late. We never prevent, only cure... sadly.

[Weezer_Blue]

I don't think there would be nearly as much opposition to taxes if that was actually the way it works.

Over here it's more like they take their money, then go and hand it out to corporations and special interest groups. Then they borrow a bunch of money to go out and kill people and make even more money for said corporations and special interest groups. Then they cry poor and 'regret' that they have to cut back what remains of the social programs that might actually improve people's lives.

I refuse to believe that the state can spend my money more wisely than me, if for no other reason than it has a *long* history of failure. Taxes are just a more organized form of blackmail - either you give them your protection money, or they'll throw you in jail.

Peace,
-CxE

agreed

We need to quit funding people just because of threats of not getting re-elected. I think that all special interest groups and libbiests should be thrown into jail for life. They disrupt our whole otherwise good government. I'm not saying if you are an idiot president then you should be thrown in jail. Maybe for something else though...

W stands for WAR CRIMES ;)