so uh...

[Ryston]

I wasn't going to release it because it would seem so effective, but I'm bored. Plus I want to prove to Spura that he's an idiot for ever insulting Order of Pain/Vampire.

Necromancer/Ranger

Soul Reaping 10+1 (lesser ruin)
Blood Magic 10+1+2+2 (scar pattern)(+2 ruin)(Awaken Blood)
Beast Mastery 10

Awaken Blood
{E} Order of the Vampire
Order of Pain
Life Siphon
Call of Ferocity
Revive Animal
Sybiosis
Animal Companion

Okay. The -50 max life from the +2 ruin is made up for by having Awaken Blood on with Sybiosis there. Actually you get 80 extra health.

You cycle cast Order of Pain/Vampire. When the killing is good and you have the energy you can stack them, when it's slow you can just cast OotV. The result is 4 energy lost every 5 seconds, Soul Reaping can keep up with that easily.

Life Siphon and Call of Ferocity are what you do when your getting attacked, you then go back to your usual Order spamming. Your pet will deal with it (assuming the pet gets the advantage of Order spells, I would assume it does).


Alright, heres how it looks.


You have -126 life for casting either of the Order spells. But they put an enchantment on you, giving you +130 health because of Sybiosis.

Order of pain wears off and drops you back down to your 440 life status. But you activate Order of the Vampire right before it does, the life you sacrifice comes out of the 130 from sybiosis and giving you another +130 max life. So your still at your happy times 564. Right as Order of the Vampire wears off, you light off Order of Pain.

Now, your taking 126 damage every 5 seconds, and your not dealing damage so you dont' really benifit from this.

But the rest of your party is getting a heal for 126 life every 5 seconds + a damage increase + 5 seconds of life leach every 10 seconds.

Uh... your pet is there because your to busy spamming those skills to do much else, so you need fire-and-forget combat. Guess what a pet is?

Whats really funny is you can do this from way back, barely able to see the combat. Just close enough for soul reaping to proc... meaning you can be really fairly safe if you want.

The enemy team does however get the same benifit, if they have an order necro. And if there order necro is by chance using Wilderness survival instead of Sybiosis for Troll Unguent... well then, ya. You just wasted your spec points to give them an equal advantage.

[krayakin]

that sounds like an odd build...I've never seen a Necro/Ranger

[Ryston]

Originally Posted by krayakin

that sounds like an odd build...I've never seen a Necro/Ranger

hehe, Necro/Ranger works beautifuly. This is the best build of it I've made so far though. I think it would be hard to lose if your on a team with one of these and you manage to keep it safe.

[VicksVice]

Egh... I'm not one who likes Soul Reaping for PvP. Are you sure there will be enough people dying to feed your energy needs?

[Bry-Guy]

well why not take soul reaping, he has to be a necro ranger, expertise wont reduce the energy cost of any of his spells, so what do you recommend?

[Green Dream]

An interesting idea. I have to praise you for your creativity, however...

Originally Posted by Ryston

Your pet will deal with it (assuming the pet gets the advantage of Order spells, I would assume it does).

It doesn't.

Originally Posted by Ryston

You have -126 life for casting either of the Order spells. But they put an enchantment on you, giving you +130 health because of Sybiosis.

Order of pain wears off and drops you back down to your 390 life status. But you activate Order of the Vampire right before it does, the life you sacrifice comes out of the 130 from sybiosis and giving you another +130 max life. So your still at your happy times 514. Right as Order of the Vampire wears off, you light off Order of Pain.

This sounds like you think symbiosis heals you every enchantment. All symbiosis does is raise your max health possible when an enchantment is put on you, I don't believe it changes your current health at all.


And also, necro soul reaping does not currently give enough energy to spam spells the entire battle at the rate you are suggesting.

[Ryston]

Originally Posted by Green Dream

This sounds like you think symbiosis heals you every enchantment. All symbiosis does is raise your max health possible when an enchantment is put on you, I don't believe it changes your current health at all.

And also, necro soul reaping does not currently give enough energy to spam spells the entire battle at the rate you are suggesting.

No, it dosn't heal you- it cycles your max life...

You take the damage for the first sacrifice, but after that your buying the next sacrifice with the life the last one just gave you. Really you've only got about 200 life this whole time, but you've got 300+ more in credit. And you keep using the next credit card to pay off the last so that 300 never accumulates and you always have about 200. Things in GW which give you max life increases automatically give you the life to fill that new max life. At least thats been my expirience with Demonic Flesh, Vital Blessing, Endure Pain.

Now, as for the spamming I'm talking about... your actually not spending all that much energy.

Thats 10 energy every 4 seconds, which really only comes to 5 energy because of energy regeneration. At 5 energy loss every 4 seconds you get 8 more seconds every time Soul Reaping goes off. You have a starting of just slightly more than 40 seconds. Seeing as you don't have to start casting untill just after the fighting starts... the only rule is that you can't stop. If you stop, your going to lose your credit-card life flow and you'll be a sitting duck.

I'm pretty sure that the pets get the bonus... I mean there names show up in the party window now and all. I kinda have this suspicion that Order of Pain was meant to combo with multiple minions the same way Barbs was. And if necro minions get it I'm almost posative Ranger Pets should and would.

[LordTofuDog]

So what happens when somebody actually attacks you? Your build seems built around not being close enough to the combat to be attacked. (Forgive me if I missed something, I can never be bothered reading remotely long posts)

[Crovaz]

have you actually tried this in practice? From what i understand, symbiosis gives you +130ish health for each enchantment.

From what you are saying you'll constantly have either oop or ootv on you, but thats one enchantment, so your max health stays the same, and you will be losing 130ish hp with each cast. Yes, health does appear when ur max is increased, but health also goes away when that max is no longer there. The credit card thing would only work if symbiosis gave you a permanent +130 health EACH time an enchantment was cast on you...

[Spura]

After this event I can safely say I know all necro attributes not just curses. I don't think this would work, but try it out and tell us. Other than that, necro ranger is pretty good.

I have played all necro combos possible and I have found necro warrior to be the best simply because of shield. 25% less damage really really changes things.
I had order of pain spammer, focus fire curser, melee debuff curser as Ne/W and they survived quite a bit better than Ne/R, Ne/Me, Ne/Mo and Ne/E.
One of these days I will write up a post, detailing the whole necromancer skill set and all attibutes

[Bry-Guy]

i think i remember heal party healing my pets. and that had the same description "affects all party members" im not sure on that though, but i think it does

[Ryston]

Okay, for those who do not yet understand it.

560 <----- your starting life

-126 (casting Order of Pain)
New Life, 334
+130 Max (Sybiosis for OoP)
New Life, 564

-126 (casting Order of the Vampire)
New Life, 438

+130 Max (Sybiosis for OotV)
New Life, 568

-130-126 Max (Sybiosis for OoP expires, but 126 of that life was already spent casting OotV)

-4 Life (total result of above)

New Life, 564

-126 (Cast Order of Pain)
New Life, 438
+130 (Sybiosis for Order of Pain)
New Life, 568

-130-126 Max (Sybiosis for OotV expires, but 126 of that life was already spent casting OoP)

-4 Life (total result of above)

New Life, 564


Seeing a pattern?




As for Spura's doubts that it will work and LordToFuDog's point that it's greatest weakness is likely in the possibility of being attacked...

The answer is that Sourage Sacrifice + attacking me would totally own the **** out of me. The best description of what that would do I can think of is if you've ever seen a person get sucked into a jet-engine on an air-craft carrier deck...

As for a regular attacking... you'll do alright. Mesmers are your greatest fear, no matter what your going to need your team to come help asap. You have Siphon Life at 4 pips with that high of blood magic. You do need help if your attacked though.

The reason I'm assuming not being attacked is because you can be in the 3rd line with this. Usually in PvP matches theres about 5 lines, and each team controlls 3 of them. Theres the base, the mid way between the losing team and the middle. Works kinda like a game of shuttles really... if any one remembers playing that.

Being in the 3rd line puts you either near your base or half-way between the mid-point and your base (if your winning). The 3rd line still see's about half of the kills and USUALLY isn't attacked. The reason is that enemies who go clear back to the third line are usually on Ninja missions and don't stop to bother with anything but monks. If they do, or if your front line breaks and you become on the second line... your ****ed. You have no saftey line, your standing too close to the engine, say good bye and go out with a smile.

The build is based upon having an agro team strat. I personally have always been comfortable with agro, some people aren't. There is the risk of your target little piggy making his house out of brick, but far more than 2 of every 3 are made of straw or sticks in my expirience. Even if there weren't... thats still 2 wins for 1 loss, and 2 for 1 isn't bad. Not good, but not bad.

[Zonzai]

Originally Posted by Spura

One of these days I will write up a post, detailing the whole necromancer skill set and all attibutes

I would really LOVE to see that!

Ryston, I would also really love to hear how this all works out for you. It's an interesting concept.

I like the necromancer class, but in the Jan event I tried one and felt that they were underwhelming. And of course I found the uber power of the now gimped ranger class. But I digress, I may try out a ne/w for the next beta (still debating on that or mo/w) but any advice you had Supra would be greatly appreciated!

[Bad_Monkey6186]

Just a little issue, but if the 'greater rune' only gives you +2 to an attribute, than it only takes away 50 healht. You've got it written as 100 health lost. Now, if you actually meant it to be a Superior Rune, which would give you +3 to the -100 life, then you are doing something you shouldn't, because you can't get attributes above 15, as far as I know.

[Rali]

Symbiosis do only work with spells you MAINTAIN, that means spells giving you -1 energy regen.

[KerYviaN_ToV_Knight]

hmmm interesting

[Zonzai]

Originally Posted by Rali

Symbiosis do only work with spells you MAINTAIN, that means spells giving you -1 energy regen.

What!? That sucks! Are you certain that it won't work with other enchantments?

[Bry-Guy]

i dont believe that is true, symbiosis should work with anything thats considered an enchantment. theres no difference between those types of enchantments as far as skills that affect enchantments go. the only way that would be true is if the skill description said
"for each maintained enchantment"

and superior runes were changed, they only cause a -75 health drop instead of -100 now

the highest you can get an attribute is 18, 12+1headpiece+3rune then +2 from either awaken the blood or glyph of power

[Ryston]

o.O Any Alpha testers able to devulge about the Sybiosis and maintained vs duration based enchantments? The only time I've ever used it before was in the WPE and that was with Vital Blessing so...

I had to go afk allot, it was a way to make my team not murder me for it.

As for the attribute thing, I think what he was saying was the game caps you out at 15 attribute rank, which I have no expirience with (I've never tried to get it above 15).

I stand corrected on ruins and thank you.


EDIT: alright, updated fixing the numbers for -50 instead of -100 life on the ruins.

Also fixed it so that Spura is the one I'm proving an idiot, not Spec... sorry Spec, who ever might go by that.

:-P

[Ryston]

Originally Posted by Zonzai

I would really LOVE to see that!

Ryston, I would also really love to hear how this all works out for you. It's an interesting concept.

I like the necromancer class, but in the Jan event I tried one and felt that they were underwhelming. And of course I found the uber power of the now gimped ranger class. But I digress, I may try out a ne/w for the next beta (still debating on that or mo/w) but any advice you had Supra would be greatly appreciated!

Ne/W can do allot of things. As Spura pointed out you can just use the Wa as a source of energy with stances, and for it's sheilds bonus, which sounds like a beautiful idea I'm going to have to go try.

If you want to focus on your sword/axe/hammer as a source of damage, it's been my epirience you have to spec into tactics to stay alive in PvE. Either that or have a good pair of healers backing you up.

Mo/W used to have a neat combo with Balthazar's Spirit and Balthazar's Aura. Basically you had a constant +25 DPS AOE aura around you when engaged in melee. That got halved when some guy went and owned up a storm with it, I'm not sure what the tactic was for casters/rangers but rangers weren't popular in those days... casters are still a mystery to me.

Right now the best Mo/W tactic I can think of is with protection prayers, but that may be my simple lack of creativity. I do know that Amnesty is as awsome a Ninja tool as Final Thrust in alot of ways.

[Crovaz]

are you sure that you wouldn't lose an additional 126 life when you lose your max from OotV or OoP. From what i understand from skills like endure pain, you lose the same amount of actual health as well as your max when your max expires. in that case:

Originally Posted by Ryston

Okay, for those who do not yet understand it.

560 <----- your starting life

-126 (casting Order of Pain)
New Life, 334 (max 560)
+130 Max (Sybiosis for OoP)
New Life, 564 (max 690)

-126 (casting Order of the Vampire)
New Life, 438 (max 690)

+130 Max (Sybiosis for OotV)
New Life, 568 (max 820)

-130-126 Max (Sybiosis for OoP expires, but 126 of that life was already spent casting OotV) (wrong)

-(126+130)=-256 Life (total result of above)

New Life, 312 (max 690)

-126 (Cast Order of Pain)
New Life, 186 (max 690)
+130 (Sybiosis for Order of Pain)
New Life, 316 (max 820)

-130-126 Max (Sybiosis for OotV expires, but 126 of that life was already spent casting OoP)
(wrong)
-256 Life (total result of above)

New Life, 60


thats the pattern i see....

[Caligula Superfly]

How much DPS would rapid fire Oov/OoP actually give? Is it any better than a good nuker? (either single target or AoE)

[kai]

I thought symbiosis only increased max life on "creatures" that have enchantments on them. I do think that ANY enchantment which is active, regardless of how it is paid for with energy (up front or over time) would activate the increase.

[Ryston]

GW considers humans as 'creatures'.

Crovax may have a point, it will require testing. Any love from alpha testers?

As for the DPS increase, it depends on your team. I'd guess your looking at about 30+ DPS increase with this team-wide.

While that in it's-self is not significant, IF Crovax is wrong, and I have a creaping fear he's not. Then it's the fact that your providing your entire team with a 130 life buffer that is refreshed back to full every 4 seconds. Not to mention the life gained from OotV.

[sphynx]

As I understand it, your life is stored as a proportion of max, which is why increasing your max increases your current life too. However, having your max reduced also reduces your current life (so that it is still at the same proportion of max).

So

560 <----- your starting life

-126 (casting Order of Pain)
New Life, 334 (max 560)
+130 Max (Sybiosis for OoP)
New Life, 564 (max 690)

becomes
560 <----- your starting life

-126 (casting Order of Pain)
New Life, 334 (max 560)
+130 Max (Sybiosis for OoP)
New Life, (334/560)*690=411 (max 690)

etc....